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Louis DENYBonsoir forumTrouvé à Belfort, 400 m altitude, s
Hymenoscyphus like on herbs
Marja Pennanen,
27-08-2010 13:59
These are about 2-4 mm wide and grow near ground propably on Epilobium.
The photo is taken quite late last evening, so sorry about the poor quality.
Marja Pennanen,
27-08-2010 14:05
Re:Hymenoscyphus like on herbs
The paraphyses were about 2-3 micrometers wide and filled with VB's (vacuoles?).
The spores were about 17-24x3-5 and asci 100-130x8-10.
The problem is, that I couldn't find the Hymenoscyphus like apical blue canal in Lugol.
Hymenoscyphus (which?) or something else?
Constantly in huge troubles with determination: Marja
The spores were about 17-24x3-5 and asci 100-130x8-10.
The problem is, that I couldn't find the Hymenoscyphus like apical blue canal in Lugol.
Hymenoscyphus (which?) or something else?
Constantly in huge troubles with determination: Marja
Hans-Otto Baral,
27-08-2010 17:10
Re:Hymenoscyphus like on herbs
A negative reaction would be strange, perhaps you can test again? or show us a photo?
The spores are homopolar, quite unlike scutula, yes, and contain big drops. Such spores in combination with stalked apos point to Hymenosc. macroguttatus. However, yours are quite short-stalked, and one must take care of H. epiphyllus which has similar spores. The difference lies in the ectal excipulum being on the flanks of t. globulosa in the latter but prismatica-porrecta in H. macroguttatus.
If Apos are rally -4 mm then epiphyllus (which grows on everything) is a real option.
Zotto
The spores are homopolar, quite unlike scutula, yes, and contain big drops. Such spores in combination with stalked apos point to Hymenosc. macroguttatus. However, yours are quite short-stalked, and one must take care of H. epiphyllus which has similar spores. The difference lies in the ectal excipulum being on the flanks of t. globulosa in the latter but prismatica-porrecta in H. macroguttatus.
If Apos are rally -4 mm then epiphyllus (which grows on everything) is a real option.
Zotto
Marja Pennanen,
30-08-2010 08:58
Re:Hymenoscyphus like on herbs
Hi Zotto,
I used now pure Lugol and the asci tips came weakly blue, but didn't remember to chech the cells.
I was too tired to remember at 3 in the morning.
I have never met H. epiphyllys nowhere else but leaves, so thanks for that piece of information :)
Must check lately, if I ever have time for that.
Thanks: Marja
I used now pure Lugol and the asci tips came weakly blue, but didn't remember to chech the cells.
I was too tired to remember at 3 in the morning.
I have never met H. epiphyllys nowhere else but leaves, so thanks for that piece of information :)
Must check lately, if I ever have time for that.
Thanks: Marja
Michel Hairaud,
30-08-2010 09:50
Re:Hymenoscyphus like on herbs
Hi Marja,
As I already mentionned, H. epiphyllus would be a rare Helotiale (if any other ?) to be determined by tasting. It is actually very bitter.
To Zotto : It's also common on other vegetable remnants such as twigs, Castaneus fruits ...
Amitiés
Michel
As I already mentionned, H. epiphyllus would be a rare Helotiale (if any other ?) to be determined by tasting. It is actually very bitter.
To Zotto : It's also common on other vegetable remnants such as twigs, Castaneus fruits ...
Amitiés
Michel
Marja Pennanen,
30-08-2010 10:18
Re:Hymenoscyphus like on herbs
Hi Michel,
thank you for that hint. It has never occured my mind to taste these tiny ones.
I will do that in the future ;)
I had only a piece of this fresh and it actually tasted a little bit bitter...
So I'll pass it over labeled as H. epiphyllus :)
Once again thank you for giving me some relief with these unfinished determinations: Marja
thank you for that hint. It has never occured my mind to taste these tiny ones.
I will do that in the future ;)
I had only a piece of this fresh and it actually tasted a little bit bitter...
So I'll pass it over labeled as H. epiphyllus :)
Once again thank you for giving me some relief with these unfinished determinations: Marja
Hans-Otto Baral,
30-08-2010 12:27
Re:Hymenoscyphus like on herbs
I did not remember Michel's methods of identifying small discos, but I actually pasted the first report of his observation in my files. And so I never tried it myself.
Anyhow, Marja, I put your fungus in H. macroguttatus, hoping that you look for the excipulum ( I hope you did not eat the collection completely). :-/ I do not guarantee for any strange poison
Zotto
Anyhow, Marja, I put your fungus in H. macroguttatus, hoping that you look for the excipulum ( I hope you did not eat the collection completely). :-/ I do not guarantee for any strange poison
Zotto
NC NC,
30-08-2010 13:03
Re:Hymenoscyphus like on herbs
Dear Zotto,
you being funny, I couldn't help laughing after reading you comment :)
Don't worry, I know, that every fungi is edible.
Unfortunately there are some, which canbe enjoyed only once ;)
But you guessed right, I put all the rest (one fruitbody) fresh ones to my mouth, but splitted it away after tasting . I had some dried left and you know how hard they can be. So I hope you can figure something from the photo. I could go and collect more, these grow quite near. But I have planned to go hunting edible Boletus, Lactarius or something this evening...
Marja
you being funny, I couldn't help laughing after reading you comment :)
Don't worry, I know, that every fungi is edible.
Unfortunately there are some, which canbe enjoyed only once ;)
But you guessed right, I put all the rest (one fruitbody) fresh ones to my mouth, but splitted it away after tasting . I had some dried left and you know how hard they can be. So I hope you can figure something from the photo. I could go and collect more, these grow quite near. But I have planned to go hunting edible Boletus, Lactarius or something this evening...
Marja
Marja Pennanen,
30-08-2010 13:07
Re:Hymenoscyphus like on herbs
Dear Zotto,
you being funny, I couldn't help laughing after reading you comment :)
Don't worry, I know, that every fungi is edible.
Unfortunately there are some, which canbe enjoyed only once ...
You guessed right, I used all the fresh ones (1) tasting...
I had some dried left and hope you can figure something of the photo:
Marja
you being funny, I couldn't help laughing after reading you comment :)
Don't worry, I know, that every fungi is edible.
Unfortunately there are some, which canbe enjoyed only once ...
You guessed right, I used all the fresh ones (1) tasting...
I had some dried left and hope you can figure something of the photo:
Marja
Hans-Otto Baral,
30-08-2010 13:16
Re:Hymenoscyphus like on herbs
So obviously this one was one of those which you can taste several times :-)
No, it is not possible to see something here. Maybe you succeed to mount part of an apothecium with the outer face upside, so that you can view ON the excipulum of the flanks (between margin and stipe). Important is whether the cells are roundish to rectangular, or brick-shaped to very elongate.
Zotto
No, it is not possible to see something here. Maybe you succeed to mount part of an apothecium with the outer face upside, so that you can view ON the excipulum of the flanks (between margin and stipe). Important is whether the cells are roundish to rectangular, or brick-shaped to very elongate.
Zotto
Marja Pennanen,
30-08-2010 14:10
Re:Hymenoscyphus like on herbs
Hello Zotto,
I don't like dry specimen. I'll go and pick some more. The place is only about a kilometer away, nice walk.
Just maybe not this evening ;)
Could you tell, where to find a presentation of the cell shapes?
Marja
I don't like dry specimen. I'll go and pick some more. The place is only about a kilometer away, nice walk.
Just maybe not this evening ;)
Could you tell, where to find a presentation of the cell shapes?
Marja
Hans-Otto Baral,
30-08-2010 16:41
Re:Hymenoscyphus like on herbs
Several works have that survey, but it is always a bit schematic, not very useful in my opinion.
I now see that cell shape is not very constant in epiphyllus, there exists both vertical angularis-globulosa and +/- horizontal prismatica. Typical is near the margin a t. prismatica, and these prismatic cells can sometimes be found even on the lower flanks (lower right image). A good character of epiphyllus is that the brick-shaped to isodiametrical cortical cells in the living state are filled with striking guttules (VBs).
I now see that cell shape is not very constant in epiphyllus, there exists both vertical angularis-globulosa and +/- horizontal prismatica. Typical is near the margin a t. prismatica, and these prismatic cells can sometimes be found even on the lower flanks (lower right image). A good character of epiphyllus is that the brick-shaped to isodiametrical cortical cells in the living state are filled with striking guttules (VBs).
Marja Pennanen,
03-09-2010 19:11
Re:Hymenoscyphus like on herbs
Hello,
I made the surgery twice. The second was succesful, but the photos were not that.
I tried to find croziers and I'm a little doubtfully tending to claim, that this has them.
This species has a strong tendency to get brown when bruised.
Marja
I made the surgery twice. The second was succesful, but the photos were not that.
I tried to find croziers and I'm a little doubtfully tending to claim, that this has them.
This species has a strong tendency to get brown when bruised.
Marja
Hans-Otto Baral,
03-09-2010 19:22
Re:Hymenoscyphus like on herbs
huu, I see some prismatic cells, but these are indeed present in epiphyllus also toward the margin.
The strong colour change could well speak for epiphyllus.
Zotto
The strong colour change could well speak for epiphyllus.
Zotto