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I would like to hear your opinion on this Scutelli
Sporormiella capybarae
Joop van der Lee,
01-05-2013 23:52
Found on horse dung.Asci: 169.41-169.67x31.06-31.57 um
Spore: 50.73x10.20-11.26 um
De second cell slightly smaller than the third one 12.14 over 12.41 um
Germ slit: Parallel to slightly oblique whereby they bent near the septum
Björn Wergen,
02-05-2013 00:38
Re : Sporormiella Grandispora?
Hi Joop,
yes, this should be S. megalospora, compare with my finding from Austria last year:
Sporormiella megalospora
regards,
björn
yes, this should be S. megalospora, compare with my finding from Austria last year:
Sporormiella megalospora
regards,
björn
Norbert Heine,
02-05-2013 01:01
Re : Sporormiella Grandispora?
Hello Joop and Björn!
Sporesize and germslit conforms better with Sporormiella capybarae.
The spores of Sporormiella grandispora have a parallel germslit and slightly larger spores.
And Sporormiella megalospora has much larger spores.
Norbert
Sporesize and germslit conforms better with Sporormiella capybarae.
The spores of Sporormiella grandispora have a parallel germslit and slightly larger spores.
And Sporormiella megalospora has much larger spores.
Norbert
Joop van der Lee,
02-05-2013 07:54
Re : Sporormiella Grandispora?
Thks Björn and Norbert.
Hereby I send you a photo with measurements of each cell Norbert. Maybe this is a better confirmation.
Upper cell conical:
13.74x9.69; 13.08x9.17; 15.31x10.20 (extreme size)
Second cell barrel shaped:
10.55x10.40; 10.75x10.66; 13.16x11.81 (extreme size)
Third cell barrel shaped:
12.49x10.01; 12.46x9.67
Basel cell cylindrical rounded top:
13.99x9.12
Hopefully I can find more photo's of this one.
Do the germ slits also curve near the septum as they do with S. Grandispora Norbert?
In the article of Ahmed & Cain on page 442 about Sporormiella they also say for S. Grandispora that germ slits are usually parallel, occasionally slightly oblique, usually curved next to septum. Cells almost equal in size (in this case they ar not).
Hereby I send you a photo with measurements of each cell Norbert. Maybe this is a better confirmation.
Upper cell conical:
13.74x9.69; 13.08x9.17; 15.31x10.20 (extreme size)
Second cell barrel shaped:
10.55x10.40; 10.75x10.66; 13.16x11.81 (extreme size)
Third cell barrel shaped:
12.49x10.01; 12.46x9.67
Basel cell cylindrical rounded top:
13.99x9.12
Hopefully I can find more photo's of this one.
Do the germ slits also curve near the septum as they do with S. Grandispora Norbert?
In the article of Ahmed & Cain on page 442 about Sporormiella they also say for S. Grandispora that germ slits are usually parallel, occasionally slightly oblique, usually curved next to septum. Cells almost equal in size (in this case they ar not).
Michel Delpont,
02-05-2013 16:29
Re : Sporormiella Grandispora?
Hello.
In the first photo, where we perceive the asci, they seem to have it as the base ends abruptly. Joop you can get a clearer picture? If this comfirme we would depart from S.capybarae which has asci gradually ending a long walk, and instead seek to S.intermedia.
Michel.
In the first photo, where we perceive the asci, they seem to have it as the base ends abruptly. Joop you can get a clearer picture? If this comfirme we would depart from S.capybarae which has asci gradually ending a long walk, and instead seek to S.intermedia.
Michel.
Joop van der Lee,
02-05-2013 17:32
Re : Sporormiella Grandispora?
OK Michel here is another photo.
Michel Delpont,
02-05-2013 18:12
Re : Sporormiella Grandispora?
Indeed, the asci seem to have an elongated foot, so it must be certainly S.carybarae, but I still find the spores too regular for it.
Michel
Michel
Joop van der Lee,
02-05-2013 18:34
Re : Sporormiella Grandispora?
I will heve a look if I can find more photos of mature spores Michel.
Michel Delpont,
02-05-2013 20:56
Re : Sporormiella Grandispora?
OK, but can be seen on your latest photos, some spores with oblique septa, which is not too much to S.capybarae. Maybe Norbert can t give us details of this species that I know little.
Michel.
Michel.
Norbert Heine,
03-05-2013 00:33
Re : Sporormiella Grandispora?
This is an interesting problem!
Sorry, but in the moment I don't have enough time for an answer.
I'll write later.
Norbert
Sorry, but in the moment I don't have enough time for an answer.
I'll write later.
Norbert
Joop van der Lee,
03-05-2013 08:34
Re : Sporormiella Grandispora?
Hello Michel & Norbert,
Is the shape of the gelatinous sheath a factor for determination?
They often differ in size and form, especially at the septa but they also can be fully cicular I will look up some photos to explain what I mean.
I also include a plhoto where you can see cells of sporormiella opening at the germ slit.
Is the shape of the gelatinous sheath a factor for determination?
They often differ in size and form, especially at the septa but they also can be fully cicular I will look up some photos to explain what I mean.
I also include a plhoto where you can see cells of sporormiella opening at the germ slit.
Michel Delpont,
03-05-2013 10:40
Re : Sporormiella Grandispora?
No, gelatinous envelopes are not an important character in Sporormiella. Looking at your pictures again I wonder if it's the same fungus every time, you're in on? Nevertheless, I stand by my first impression of S.intermedia which can be quite variable. I found some copies of S.intermedia with the base of asci as on your photos, not great either one way or the other.
Michel.
Michel.
Joop van der Lee,
03-05-2013 14:45
Re : Sporormiella Grandispora?
Merci Michel
Joop van der Lee,
05-05-2013 00:24
Re : Sporormiella Grandispora?
I think you are right Michel with two different funghi, the first serie is short stalked for the asci. Doveri talks about oblique and sinuous germ slits. Also the spore cells differ too much in length. Documentation notes that the end cells are slightly longer than the middele ones. And here you clearly have different cell lengths.
The other serie does not have short stalks for the asci I am still looking for better photo's that match.
In the first serie the upper cell is conical, the second barrel shaped the third and also the basal end cell cylindrical with a rounded end for the latter.