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Hymenoscyphus
Yannick Mourgues,
29-09-2007 23:51
Bonsoir.Je sollicite votre aide pour cet Hymenoscyphus.
Description :
Macro :
Comme le montre la photo, ils se développent en troupe compacte d'une trentaine d'exemplaires sur branche de Fagus.
Fructification de 4-6mm de diamètre cupuliforme +-étalée, distinctement stipitée (h=5-8mm).
Hymenium lisse jaune pâle.
Excipulum et stipe blanchâtre ainsi que la marge.
Micro:
Spores fusiformes se terminant en pointe par une extrémité, hyalines, avec de nombreuses petites guttules, 29-30x3,2-3,9 um
Asques IKI+, cylindriques, sans boucles, octosporés, 120x8 um, spores parfois bisériées.
Paraphyses hyalines, septées, filiforme, larges de 2 um.
J'étais parti sur Hymenoscyphus calyculus, mais mes spores sont beaucoup beaucoup trop grandes.
Auriez-vous une idée ?
Merci par avance.
Yannick Mourgues
Yannick Mourgues,
29-09-2007 23:52
Re:Hymenoscyphus
Spores
Yannick Mourgues,
30-09-2007 00:04
Re:Hymenoscyphus
NB : rougit lentement à la blessure.
NC NC,
30-09-2007 07:56
Re:Hymenoscyphus
Bonjour à tous,
Je pense qu'il s'agit de Hymenoscyphus serotinus
sur Fagus longuement pedicellé
spores longues >30 µm (35) , étroites < 4µm et en arc de cercle
rougissant = paraphyses réfringentes
asques à crochet
Breitenbach le représente par erreur (?) sous lme nom de calyculus d'où ta proposition ?
Amicalement
Robert
Je pense qu'il s'agit de Hymenoscyphus serotinus
sur Fagus longuement pedicellé
spores longues >30 µm (35) , étroites < 4µm et en arc de cercle
rougissant = paraphyses réfringentes
asques à crochet
Breitenbach le représente par erreur (?) sous lme nom de calyculus d'où ta proposition ?
Amicalement
Robert
Jacques Trimbach,
30-09-2007 10:17
Re:Hymenoscyphus
H. calyculus (bien représenté chez Breitenbach & Kränzlin) est un champ. presqu' entièrement jaune oeuf, qui ne rougit pas et qui a des spores lég.différentes. Il est extrèmement répandu sur les bois morts d'Alnus viridis et ne manque dans aucune aulnaie verte.
Miquel Angel Perez-De-Gregorio,
30-09-2007 10:34
Re:Hymenoscyphus
En Catalogne, nous trouvons d'habitude H. calyculus dans bois de Fagus
Hans-Otto Baral,
30-09-2007 12:16
Re:Hymenoscyphus
H. calyculus is a very difficult species which I also found on a stump of Fagus (HB 3118, DVD) and which I tentatively placed in Hymenoscyphus subferrugineus, a taxon which is perhaps not separable from calyculus. Even H. conscriptus on Salix is not as easy to separate as I previously thought. But H. serotinus is very easy to separate by the narrow and strongly curved spores and strict occurrence of Fagus twigs. However, extraeuropean authors used the name very differently and surely incorrectly for something with straight spores and not on Fagus!
Zotto
Zotto
NC NC,
30-09-2007 16:30
Re:Hymenoscyphus
I have never seen a collection from Europe or North Ameriva or Japan/China of Hymenoscyphus serotinus with spores as greatly curved as those illustrated here.
Dick
Dick
Yannick Mourgues,
30-09-2007 17:15
Re:Hymenoscyphus
Merci pour vos réponses.
Il s'agit donc de H. serotinus ? Vous me le confirmez ?
Effectivement, mes clés m'amenaient vers Hymenoscyphus calyculus et la photo du Breitenbach collait bien, mais la micro n'allait pas du tout.
Je me suis trompé au niveau de la clé car je n'ai pas vu de boucles aux asques. Je n'en vois d'ailleurs toujours pas.
Merci à tous.
Hi.
So it's Hymenoscyphus serotinus ?
In my keys, I arrived to Hymenoscyphus calyculus, but the micro wasn't good for my specie. If it's H. serotinus, I have made a mistake in keys because I haven't seen any croziers.
Thank's a lot !
yannick
Il s'agit donc de H. serotinus ? Vous me le confirmez ?
Effectivement, mes clés m'amenaient vers Hymenoscyphus calyculus et la photo du Breitenbach collait bien, mais la micro n'allait pas du tout.
Je me suis trompé au niveau de la clé car je n'ai pas vu de boucles aux asques. Je n'en vois d'ailleurs toujours pas.
Merci à tous.
Hi.
So it's Hymenoscyphus serotinus ?
In my keys, I arrived to Hymenoscyphus calyculus, but the micro wasn't good for my specie. If it's H. serotinus, I have made a mistake in keys because I haven't seen any croziers.
Thank's a lot !
yannick
Hans-Otto Baral,
30-09-2007 23:06
Re:Hymenoscyphus
Dear Yannick and Dick
I am quite sure Yannick´s specimen has croziers, because I saw H. serotinus very often, and that since I started with inoperculates. It was one of my very first species I gathered, and it belonged to those for which I did not find a name for a longer time. This was quite surprizing to me because it has very good characters including host specifity. If you use my key you will immediately arrive at serotinus. With Bernard Declercq´s key you need to got the lead "with croziers".
The spores are actually often medium to stongly curved though also some almost staight ones are amon them. I attach here one of my first drawings from 1974.
Zotto
I am quite sure Yannick´s specimen has croziers, because I saw H. serotinus very often, and that since I started with inoperculates. It was one of my very first species I gathered, and it belonged to those for which I did not find a name for a longer time. This was quite surprizing to me because it has very good characters including host specifity. If you use my key you will immediately arrive at serotinus. With Bernard Declercq´s key you need to got the lead "with croziers".
The spores are actually often medium to stongly curved though also some almost staight ones are amon them. I attach here one of my first drawings from 1974.
Zotto
Yannick Mourgues,
30-09-2007 23:43
Re:Hymenoscyphus
So ok for H. serotinus.
Thank's a lot again !!!
Thank's a lot again !!!
Guy Garcia,
01-10-2007 11:43
Re:Hymenoscyphus
Voici une photo des spores "in vivo veritas" !
Amitiés, Guy
Amitiés, Guy
Hans-Otto Baral,
01-10-2007 18:56
Re:Hymenoscyphus
Thanks Guy! I am sorry to have no vital image of serotinus spores and when I started mycology I made drawings of dead spores as everybopdy, without being aware of the artificial nature of the confluent oil drops in the spores.-
Zotto
Zotto