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Louis DENYBonsoir forumTrouvé à Belfort, 400 m altitude, s
Sur feuille de Hedera helix
Pablo Chacón,
01-04-2009 22:05
Je ne me décide pas par un type, trouvée en feuille de Hedera helix, à trois occasions.Ascocarpo Disciforme, marrón ocre. Stipite large, noir a la base, no sclerocio.
Spores bigutules hialines, 8-10x3 microns
Ascas amiliodes avec lugol et NaOH, sans hidroxid, non amiliode ou très peu amiloide.70-80x8-9 microns.
Courts cheveux dans la partie extérieure de l'apothecio,cloisone arrondis dans l'apex et les longueurs cylindrique.
Cellules excipulo sphériques.
Je pense Ciboria, mais non rencontre rien dans la bibliographie en Hedera helix.
Salutacions
Pablo
Pablo Chacón,
01-04-2009 22:10
Re:Sur feuille de Hedera helix
Hair
Pablo Chacón,
01-04-2009 22:12
Re:Sur feuille de Hedera helix
hairs 2
Hans-Otto Baral,
01-04-2009 22:16
Re:Sur feuille de Hedera helix
Hi Pablo
very interesting! The only species I associate with this is Moellerodiscus lentus. But to confirm I need to see the spores. How large are the apos in diameter? The living paraphyses: do they contain a yellowish-brownish sap? Important: do the asci arise from croziers?
The species appears to be polyphagous. The one I saw was on Populus leaves.
Zotto
very interesting! The only species I associate with this is Moellerodiscus lentus. But to confirm I need to see the spores. How large are the apos in diameter? The living paraphyses: do they contain a yellowish-brownish sap? Important: do the asci arise from croziers?
The species appears to be polyphagous. The one I saw was on Populus leaves.
Zotto
Pablo Chacón,
01-04-2009 22:24
Re:Sur feuille de Hedera helix
Ascas, parafisis
Pablo Chacón,
01-04-2009 22:25
Re:Sur feuille de Hedera helix
Spores
Pablo Chacón,
01-04-2009 22:33
Re:Sur feuille de Hedera helix
Hi Zotto,
size apothecio, is 2-5 mm diameter
I think that if croziers, bases of ascus
size apothecio, is 2-5 mm diameter
I think that if croziers, bases of ascus
Pablo Chacón,
01-04-2009 22:39
Re:Sur feuille de Hedera helix
.
Gilbert MOYNE,
01-04-2009 23:07
Re:Sur feuille de Hedera helix
Peut-être Pycnopeziza sejournei ?
Gilbert
René Dougoud,
02-04-2009 06:51
Re:Sur feuille de Hedera helix
Cher Collègue,
Je vous réponds depuis mon bureau (job) et donc sans avoir la possibilité de contrôler ce que je vous propose, à savoir de contrôler s'il ne s'agirait pas de Pycnopeziza sejournei ?
Cordialement
René
Je vous réponds depuis mon bureau (job) et donc sans avoir la possibilité de contrôler ce que je vous propose, à savoir de contrôler s'il ne s'agirait pas de Pycnopeziza sejournei ?
Cordialement
René
Hans-Otto Baral,
02-04-2009 08:50
Re:Sur feuille de Hedera helix
Dear Gilbert & René
I also considered this possibility but the spores of Pycnopeziza sejournei are much wider: 9-13 x 4-5 µm. Also the apothecia have short and thick stalks, and the asci are strongly blue in Lugol.
Zotto
I also considered this possibility but the spores of Pycnopeziza sejournei are much wider: 9-13 x 4-5 µm. Also the apothecia have short and thick stalks, and the asci are strongly blue in Lugol.
Zotto
Pablo Chacón,
02-04-2009 19:55
Re:Sur feuille de Hedera helix
DHello friendly
Encounter a small amount of parafisis Yellow color.
Abundant base of ascas and croziers.
Esporas, many small gutulas poligutuladas in the poles.
Encounter a small amount of parafisis Yellow color.
Abundant base of ascas and croziers.
Esporas, many small gutulas poligutuladas in the poles.
Pablo Chacón,
02-04-2009 19:55
Re:Sur feuille de Hedera helix
paráfisis and spores
Hans-Otto Baral,
02-04-2009 20:42
Re:Sur feuille de Hedera helix
thanks for your very good images. I understand that the red ones are in aqueous Congo red.
So spore shape and guttules, as well as croziers indicate that this is conspecific with my find from W-France on Populus leaves. We have made a culture of this find and hope that a sequence will be gained from it, because M. lentus is obviously a complex of different species, involving some without croziers.
Here some pics of the Populus specimen. Apothecia 1.2-1.5 mm diam, stipe 1.5-3 mm, exterior in the field distinctly light yellow-chlorinaceous, under bino more brownish-yellowish
So spore shape and guttules, as well as croziers indicate that this is conspecific with my find from W-France on Populus leaves. We have made a culture of this find and hope that a sequence will be gained from it, because M. lentus is obviously a complex of different species, involving some without croziers.
Here some pics of the Populus specimen. Apothecia 1.2-1.5 mm diam, stipe 1.5-3 mm, exterior in the field distinctly light yellow-chlorinaceous, under bino more brownish-yellowish
Hans-Otto Baral,
02-04-2009 20:43
Re:Sur feuille de Hedera helix
Some paraphyses with amber-brown vacuoles
Hans-Otto Baral,
02-04-2009 20:45
Re:Sur feuille de Hedera helix
Asci only weakly amyloid. Hairs somewhat capitate. I think the spores fit very well. Size: *9.3-10.5 x 2.8-3.4 µm
Pablo Chacón,
02-04-2009 21:21
Re:Sur feuille de Hedera helix
Dear Zotto,
Where I can find information on I generate Moellerodiscus and pycnopeziza?
Thank you very much
Where I can find information on I generate Moellerodiscus and pycnopeziza?
Thank you very much
Hans-Otto Baral,
02-04-2009 21:30
Re:Sur feuille de Hedera helix
I think for a first approach you should consult the key by Schumacher & Holst-Jensen.
http://biologi.uio.no/bot/ascomycetes/Sclero.key.html
Pycnopeziza sejournei is well described in Boudier (Icones, p. 282). It was also trated by Häffner (1984, Beitr. Kennt. Pilze Mitteleur. 1: 133.142)
Moellerodiscus was treated by Dumont (1976: 234, Mycologia 68) and Zhuang (1989: 305, Mycotaxon 35).
Zotto
http://biologi.uio.no/bot/ascomycetes/Sclero.key.html
Pycnopeziza sejournei is well described in Boudier (Icones, p. 282). It was also trated by Häffner (1984, Beitr. Kennt. Pilze Mitteleur. 1: 133.142)
Moellerodiscus was treated by Dumont (1976: 234, Mycologia 68) and Zhuang (1989: 305, Mycotaxon 35).
Zotto
Pablo Chacón,
02-04-2009 21:34
Re:Sur feuille de Hedera helix
Hi Zotto,
Thank you very much