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Cistella (?) on Pteridium aquilinum old stems
Enrique Rubio,
19-04-2009 22:05
Je ne connais pas cet Cistella (?) avec apos jusqu'a 1 mm, sessiles ou subestipitates, hymenium jaunatre, sur rachis de Pteridium.Asques IKI bb, avec des crochets, jusqu'a 69 x 7, 8-spores. Paraphyses cilindriques, scarcely protruding. Spores multiguttulés, 10-13.8 x 2.3-3. Excipulum prismatica to porrecta. Poils hyalines, epineuses. IKI sur medulla ou excipulum (-).
Merci de votre aide
Enrique
I don't know this Cistella (?) species that grews on Pteridium aquilinum old rachis. Apos up to 1-1.1 mm, sessiles or substipitate. Fresh hymenium yellowish or yellowish-cream. Asci IKI bb, with croziers, up to 69 x 7, 8-spored. Spores multiguttulate, 10-13.8 x 2.3-3. Excipulum textura porrecta to prismatica, IKI (-) on medulla and excipulum. Hairs hyaline, septate, clearly spiny up to 1/2 of their lenght.
Many thanks for your help.
Enrique
Enrique Rubio,
19-04-2009 22:05
Re:Cistella (?) on Pteridium aquilinum old stems
Spores
Enrique Rubio,
19-04-2009 22:06
Re:Cistella (?) on Pteridium aquilinum old stems
Asci and paraphyses
Enrique Rubio,
19-04-2009 22:06
Re:Cistella (?) on Pteridium aquilinum old stems
Excipulum
Enrique Rubio,
19-04-2009 22:06
Re:Cistella (?) on Pteridium aquilinum old stems
Hairs
Stip Helleman,
19-04-2009 23:35
Re:Cistella (?) on Pteridium aquilinum old stems
Hallo Enrique,
It looks to me like Cistella aconitii, check Zotto's DVD.
Regards
Stip
It looks to me like Cistella aconitii, check Zotto's DVD.
Regards
Stip
Guy Garcia,
20-04-2009 13:02
Re:Cistella (?) on Pteridium aquilinum old stems
a comparer avec "Dasyscyphus" pteridialis Graddon = ? Cistella helvetica Baral
Enrique Rubio,
20-04-2009 17:00
Re:Cistella (?) on Pteridium aquilinum old stems
Thank you Stip & Guy
I have excluded C. helvetica (an uknow species for me) because the smaller ascomata, a different spore size (smaller and broader) and the IKI rr or rb reaction of the ascus pore (see Zotto's keys).
Cistella aconiti seems to be microscopically close to my collection, but I never have collected it on ferns, and their ascomata are allways withish and smaller.
Enrique
I have excluded C. helvetica (an uknow species for me) because the smaller ascomata, a different spore size (smaller and broader) and the IKI rr or rb reaction of the ascus pore (see Zotto's keys).
Cistella aconiti seems to be microscopically close to my collection, but I never have collected it on ferns, and their ascomata are allways withish and smaller.
Enrique
Guy Garcia,
20-04-2009 18:17
Re:Cistella (?) on Pteridium aquilinum old stems
Salut Enrique,
Note que j'ai mis un point d'interrogation devant Cistella helvetica.
Voilà la DO de Dasyscyphus pteridialis Graddon 1977 TBMS 69(2) : 261 [I4:503]
Diagnose: Apothecia gregaria, superficialis, sessilia, ad 750 µm lata. Hymenium ochraceum. Extus supra hyalina, pilis scintillans vestita, infra fusca. Excipulum textura-prismaticum, cellulis ad 15 x 10 µm. Pilis ad 30 µm longis, leniter clavatis ad 5 µm crassis, 1-2 septatis, granulis incrustatis. Asci ad 50 x 7-8 µm, octospori, poro iodo adjuvante caerulescente. Ascosporae 9-12 x 2-2.5 µm, cylindraceae, 1-septatae. Paraphyses superne tenuiter lanceolatae, crassit ad 2.5 µm, asco aequales. In frondibus Pteridis aquilinae, Gorsley, Herefordshire, Oct; 1976, W.D. Graddon. Holotypus in K, W.D.G. 2954.
Amitiés, Guy
Note que j'ai mis un point d'interrogation devant Cistella helvetica.
Voilà la DO de Dasyscyphus pteridialis Graddon 1977 TBMS 69(2) : 261 [I4:503]
Diagnose: Apothecia gregaria, superficialis, sessilia, ad 750 µm lata. Hymenium ochraceum. Extus supra hyalina, pilis scintillans vestita, infra fusca. Excipulum textura-prismaticum, cellulis ad 15 x 10 µm. Pilis ad 30 µm longis, leniter clavatis ad 5 µm crassis, 1-2 septatis, granulis incrustatis. Asci ad 50 x 7-8 µm, octospori, poro iodo adjuvante caerulescente. Ascosporae 9-12 x 2-2.5 µm, cylindraceae, 1-septatae. Paraphyses superne tenuiter lanceolatae, crassit ad 2.5 µm, asco aequales. In frondibus Pteridis aquilinae, Gorsley, Herefordshire, Oct; 1976, W.D. Graddon. Holotypus in K, W.D.G. 2954.
Amitiés, Guy
Enrique Rubio,
20-04-2009 18:37
Re:Cistella (?) on Pteridium aquilinum old stems
Thank you, Guy. It seems a good description for my own collection. I think that D. pteridialis and C. helvetica can be different fungi, at least according to the images of C. helvetica that I can see on Zotto's Dvd.
Amitiés
Enrique
Amitiés
Enrique
Enrique Rubio,
20-04-2009 19:51
Re:Cistella (?) on Pteridium aquilinum old stems
Dear Stip:
I have seen in your web page your 'Cistella' pteridialis card. Do you think agrees with my collection?.
I think yes.
Enrique
I have seen in your web page your 'Cistella' pteridialis card. Do you think agrees with my collection?.
I think yes.
Enrique
Guy Garcia,
20-04-2009 20:55
Re:Cistella (?) on Pteridium aquilinum old stems
C'est Zotto in Baral & Krieglesteiner 1986 : N15 (sous le nom de Cistella spec. qui a ensuite été publié comme Cistella helvetica) qui a évoqué la possibilité de cette synonymie. Je pense qu'il nous en dira un peu plus sur le sujet.
Si tu n'as pas, je peux te faire passer un pdf de l'article de Graddon.
Amitiés et merci pour ces récoltes très intéressantes.
Guy
Si tu n'as pas, je peux te faire passer un pdf de l'article de Graddon.
Amitiés et merci pour ces récoltes très intéressantes.
Guy
Enrique Rubio,
20-04-2009 21:20
Re:Cistella (?) on Pteridium aquilinum old stems
Je n'ai pas l'article de Graddon et pourtant je te remercie son envoie.
J'espere cet année de recolter nouvellement le Lachnum sur les feuilles de Berberis vulgaris et pouvoir te l'envoyer frais. Si la poste (spagnole ou français) nous permette de le faire.
Merci beaucoup
Enrique
J'espere cet année de recolter nouvellement le Lachnum sur les feuilles de Berberis vulgaris et pouvoir te l'envoyer frais. Si la poste (spagnole ou français) nous permette de le faire.
Merci beaucoup
Enrique
Hans-Otto Baral,
20-04-2009 22:20
Re:Cistella (?) on Pteridium aquilinum old stems
Salut Enrique and all others
I don't think that ypour fungus is D. pteridialis. I am not very sure what pteridialis is. But the diagnosis says that the apothecia are brown in their lower part of the excipulum. This and the only slightly flexuous, finely punctate instead of spiny hairs remind me somewhat of Fuscolachnum, but I also doubt the generic difference between that genus and Cistella.
The spore content in Graddon's fungus also differs greatly: only a few small droplets at each end.
I think it is C. aconiti in my sense, a common species on herbaceous stems of various herbs, which I did not see so far on ferns though I can imagine that it also goes on that.
The type of C. aconiti seems different, however, see DVD HB 7400: hairs often hooked at the spiny apex, fungus extruding a distinct sulfur-yellow sap when treated by KOH (noted in the old type material).
Zotto
Zotto
I don't think that ypour fungus is D. pteridialis. I am not very sure what pteridialis is. But the diagnosis says that the apothecia are brown in their lower part of the excipulum. This and the only slightly flexuous, finely punctate instead of spiny hairs remind me somewhat of Fuscolachnum, but I also doubt the generic difference between that genus and Cistella.
The spore content in Graddon's fungus also differs greatly: only a few small droplets at each end.
I think it is C. aconiti in my sense, a common species on herbaceous stems of various herbs, which I did not see so far on ferns though I can imagine that it also goes on that.
The type of C. aconiti seems different, however, see DVD HB 7400: hairs often hooked at the spiny apex, fungus extruding a distinct sulfur-yellow sap when treated by KOH (noted in the old type material).
Zotto
Zotto
Enrique Rubio,
21-04-2009 10:46
Re:Cistella (?) on Pteridium aquilinum old stems
Many thanks, Zotto, for your opinion. Nevertheless, in spite of its microscopic coincidences, the aspect of the forms that grow in other sustrats seems to be very different ?
Enrique
Enrique
Stip Helleman,
21-04-2009 12:20
Re:Cistella (?) on Pteridium aquilinum old stems
Dear Enrique,
I missed quite a lot yesterday evening when i was working, there is not much to say any more.
My collection of aconiti was on old newspapers, so what is the substrate with this species?
Cheers Stip
I missed quite a lot yesterday evening when i was working, there is not much to say any more.
My collection of aconiti was on old newspapers, so what is the substrate with this species?
Cheers Stip
Enrique Rubio,
21-04-2009 12:48
Re:Cistella (?) on Pteridium aquilinum old stems
Thank you, Stip
Hans-Otto Baral,
21-04-2009 20:10
Re:Cistella (?) on Pteridium aquilinum old stems
"old newspaper" is an interesting substrate : )
Enruique, what do you mean with "aspect of the forms", do you see macroscopical differences?
Zotto
Enruique, what do you mean with "aspect of the forms", do you see macroscopical differences?
Zotto
Enrique Rubio,
22-04-2009 20:04
Re:Cistella (?) on Pteridium aquilinum old stems
Hi Zotto. I wanted to say that the ascomata of my collection looks alike a Lachnum species, greater and with the hymenium yellowish-cream.
I had seen many times Cistella aconiti on herbaceous stems, but allways was smaller and fully whitish (?)
I had seen many times Cistella aconiti on herbaceous stems, but allways was smaller and fully whitish (?)
Hans-Otto Baral,
22-04-2009 20:11
Re:Cistella (?) on Pteridium aquilinum old stems
I attach a find from S-Sweden, on Cirsium
Hans-Otto Baral,
22-04-2009 20:13
Re:Cistella (?) on Pteridium aquilinum old stems
and spores of a N-German find on Mentha. Spores are exactly as in your image, *10-13 x 2.7-3 µm.
Enrique Rubio,
22-04-2009 20:20
Re:Cistella (?) on Pteridium aquilinum old stems
Of course, I'm sure you are right! It's only a personal impression...
Enrique
Enrique