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Bitunicate pyreno on Australian desert shrub
Hans-Otto Baral,
13-07-2009 08:10
I do not expect a name for this, but perhaps someone wishes to give some comments.In association with at least 6 different Orbilia species (two visible on the photo) a small black pyreno with a few black bristles around the ostiole.
Asci IKI-, 8-spored. Spores *40-54 x 8-8.6 µm, 6-8(-10)-septate.
On xeric detaching bark of a ?Proteaceae, W-Australia (N of Geraldton).
Zotto
Hans-Otto Baral,
13-07-2009 08:12
Re:Bitunicate pyreno on Australian desert shrub
The end-cells of the spores are often dead and then look like apiculi. The fungus is still rather fully alive now 20 months after being collected (the Orbilias also).
Christian Lechat,
13-07-2009 09:05
Re:Bitunicate pyreno on Australian desert shrub
Hi, Zotto,
did you consider the genus Trematospheria?
did you consider the genus Trematospheria?
Hans-Otto Baral,
13-07-2009 13:42
Re:Bitunicate pyreno on Australian desert shrub
Hi Christian
I admit I did not try identification :-( In Dennis Trematosphaeria has finally bronw spores. Here I think they remain hyaline, at least I am sure they are ejected hyaline.
The generic concepts in Pleosporales are still an enigma to me. With Dennis' key I arrive at Herpotrichia ....
Zotto
I admit I did not try identification :-( In Dennis Trematosphaeria has finally bronw spores. Here I think they remain hyaline, at least I am sure they are ejected hyaline.
The generic concepts in Pleosporales are still an enigma to me. With Dennis' key I arrive at Herpotrichia ....
Zotto
NC NC,
13-07-2009 16:06
Re:Bitunicate pyreno on Australian desert shrub
Hello Zotto..
How about Acanthostigmina? This would include some very similar species included by Berlese in Acanthostigma. The perithecial peridium in your photo appears to be light brown as occurs in many Tubeufiaceae. The possibility that it is biotrophically linked to the Orbilia apothecia might also fit that family. The key in Crane, Shearer and Barr (Can. J. Bot. 76: 602–612 (1998)) seems to lead to Acanthostigmina.
Dave
How about Acanthostigmina? This would include some very similar species included by Berlese in Acanthostigma. The perithecial peridium in your photo appears to be light brown as occurs in many Tubeufiaceae. The possibility that it is biotrophically linked to the Orbilia apothecia might also fit that family. The key in Crane, Shearer and Barr (Can. J. Bot. 76: 602–612 (1998)) seems to lead to Acanthostigmina.
Dave
David Malloch,
13-07-2009 16:42
Re:Bitunicate pyreno on Australian desert shrub
Hello Zotto,
How about Acanthostigmina? That would encompass some of the species Berlese placed in Acanthostigma, which look a lot like your specimen. The brown perithecial peridium and possibly biotrophic relationship with Orbilia species would also fit. It comes out to Acanthostigma in Crane, Shearer and Barr's key to saprobic members of the Tubeufiaceae (Can. J. Bot. 76: 602–612 (1998)).
Dave
How about Acanthostigmina? That would encompass some of the species Berlese placed in Acanthostigma, which look a lot like your specimen. The brown perithecial peridium and possibly biotrophic relationship with Orbilia species would also fit. It comes out to Acanthostigma in Crane, Shearer and Barr's key to saprobic members of the Tubeufiaceae (Can. J. Bot. 76: 602–612 (1998)).
Dave
Hans-Otto Baral,
13-07-2009 21:22
Re:Bitunicate pyreno on Australian desert shrub
Dear Dave
many thanks, that's helpful! I see from my files that my species looks quite similar to Acanthostigma minutum, a species recently identified by Jacques Fournier in this forum, found by me in April 2009 in Bavaria.
I never heared of Acanthostigmina. Do you or anybody have a pdf of the Crane paper? To what ascomycetes is Acanthostigmina said to be possibly biotrophic? I mainly know of Tubeufia cerea which likes to grow on stromatic pyrenos.
Zotto
many thanks, that's helpful! I see from my files that my species looks quite similar to Acanthostigma minutum, a species recently identified by Jacques Fournier in this forum, found by me in April 2009 in Bavaria.
I never heared of Acanthostigmina. Do you or anybody have a pdf of the Crane paper? To what ascomycetes is Acanthostigmina said to be possibly biotrophic? I mainly know of Tubeufia cerea which likes to grow on stromatic pyrenos.
Zotto
David Malloch,
13-07-2009 21:43
Re:Bitunicate pyreno on Australian desert shrub
Hi Zotto,
I will email you the Crane et al paper.
I was mistaken in stating that Acanthostigmina species are biotrophs. A closer reading reveals that they are considered sapropbic. However, the association of some Tubeufiaceae with pyrenomycetes (you mention Tubeufia cerea) suggests that they may be more than just wood-decomposers.
Dave
I will email you the Crane et al paper.
I was mistaken in stating that Acanthostigmina species are biotrophs. A closer reading reveals that they are considered sapropbic. However, the association of some Tubeufiaceae with pyrenomycetes (you mention Tubeufia cerea) suggests that they may be more than just wood-decomposers.
Dave
David Malloch,
13-07-2009 22:00
Re:Bitunicate pyreno on Australian desert shrub
Another fungal association involves Acanthostigma parasiticum Ellis & Everhart, described from stromata of Diatrype stigma. Crane, Shearer and Barr include A. parasiticum under the synonymy of Acanthostigmina minuta.
Dave
Dave
Hans-Otto Baral,
13-07-2009 22:42
Re:Bitunicate pyreno on Australian desert shrub
Thanks for the pdf! The Index Fungorum says Acanthostigma minutum is the current name, but Crane et al. say Acanthostigmina minuta. What do you think is better? Does anybody today distinguish between the two genera?
As Crane et al. do not give characters or a key to the species included in Acanthostigmina, I will now stop going further in this matter and name my fungus Acanthostigmina sp. (or Acanthostigma sp.).
Zotto
As Crane et al. do not give characters or a key to the species included in Acanthostigmina, I will now stop going further in this matter and name my fungus Acanthostigmina sp. (or Acanthostigma sp.).
Zotto
David Malloch,
14-07-2009 01:12
Re:Bitunicate pyreno on Australian desert shrub
Hi Zotto,
I do not have access to the paper Réblová M, Barr ME. 2000. The genus Acanthostigma (Tubeufiaceae, Pleosporales). Sydowia 52:258–285. This would probably resolve the Acanthostigma/Acanthostigmina issue. A 2004 paper by Kodsueb et al (Mycologia 96(3):667-674) seems to use Acanthostigma in the sense of your collection. Perhaps Acanthostigmina Höhnel has once more sunk into obscurity.
Dave
I do not have access to the paper Réblová M, Barr ME. 2000. The genus Acanthostigma (Tubeufiaceae, Pleosporales). Sydowia 52:258–285. This would probably resolve the Acanthostigma/Acanthostigmina issue. A 2004 paper by Kodsueb et al (Mycologia 96(3):667-674) seems to use Acanthostigma in the sense of your collection. Perhaps Acanthostigmina Höhnel has once more sunk into obscurity.
Dave
Romina Sánchez,
17-07-2009 15:03
Re:Bitunicate pyreno on Australian desert shrub
Dear Zotto,
Réblová and Barr (2000) relegated to synonymy Acanthostigmina and A. minutum Höhn. because Acanthostigma and A. perpusillum De Not. have priority. I have the paper and if you want I can scan it and send you as a pdf file.
Romina
Réblová and Barr (2000) relegated to synonymy Acanthostigmina and A. minutum Höhn. because Acanthostigma and A. perpusillum De Not. have priority. I have the paper and if you want I can scan it and send you as a pdf file.
Romina
Hans-Otto Baral,
17-07-2009 21:20
Re:Bitunicate pyreno on Australian desert shrub
Dear Romina & Dave
I have the paper actually, but in a bad scan, partly unreadable. So yes, please send it, I think Dave would also like to have it?
zotto@arcor.de
thanks!
Zotto
I have the paper actually, but in a bad scan, partly unreadable. So yes, please send it, I think Dave would also like to have it?
zotto@arcor.de
thanks!
Zotto
David Malloch,
17-07-2009 21:50
Re:Bitunicate pyreno on Australian desert shrub
Dear Romina & Zotto,
Yes indeed! I would very much like to have a PDF of that paper. I cannot find any means of getting Sydowia online and I live in an area very far from any good mycological resources (closest is Boston, 8 hours drive south).
Dave
Yes indeed! I would very much like to have a PDF of that paper. I cannot find any means of getting Sydowia online and I live in an area very far from any good mycological resources (closest is Boston, 8 hours drive south).
Dave
Guy Garcia,
18-07-2009 06:15
Re:Bitunicate pyreno on Australian desert shrub
Cher Romina,
Je suis aussi intéressé par le pdf de cet article.
Merci et amitiés
Guy
Je suis aussi intéressé par le pdf de cet article.
Merci et amitiés
Guy
Romina Sánchez,
20-07-2009 18:05
Re:Bitunicate pyreno on Australian desert shrub
Dear Zotto, Dave and Guy,
I have a doubt because I'm new in ASCOfrance. Can I directly upload the pdf here and will all of you be able to see it? It is alllowed?
Romina
I have a doubt because I'm new in ASCOfrance. Can I directly upload the pdf here and will all of you be able to see it? It is alllowed?
Romina
Guy Garcia,
20-07-2009 20:29
Re:Bitunicate pyreno on Australian desert shrub
Cher Romina,
Tu peux déposer un fichier dans la rubrique "Documentation" mais la taille ne doit pas dépasser 900 ko. Sinon il faut contacter Christian Lechat le modérateur du forum.
Guy
Tu peux déposer un fichier dans la rubrique "Documentation" mais la taille ne doit pas dépasser 900 ko. Sinon il faut contacter Christian Lechat le modérateur du forum.
Guy
Christian Lechat,
20-07-2009 21:08
Re:Bitunicate pyreno on Australian desert shrub
Dear friends,
I think that you should ask for the authorisation to the authors or assignees:)
All the best,
Christian
I think that you should ask for the authorisation to the authors or assignees:)
All the best,
Christian
Romina Sánchez,
20-07-2009 21:31
Re:Bitunicate pyreno on Australian desert shrub
Thanks Christian, that was what I wanted to know. Because here in my country there are not any problems with that, and then I realised that maybe it was not appropriate for this forum.
I'll try to get Reblova's authorisation and then I'll write to you again.
Sorry for having created this mess.
Romina
I'll try to get Reblova's authorisation and then I'll write to you again.
Sorry for having created this mess.
Romina
Michel Hairaud,
24-07-2009 23:19
Re:Bitunicate pyreno on Australian desert shrub
High Zotto !
And what about the Orbilia schown in the picture, with such a remarkable margin, another of the hundreds of new species to be published very soon ? :P , :P
Amitiés
And what about the Orbilia schown in the picture, with such a remarkable margin, another of the hundreds of new species to be published very soon ? :P , :P
Amitiés
Hans-Otto Baral,
24-07-2009 23:46
Re:Bitunicate pyreno on Australian desert shrub
Hoi Michel
yes, "very soon" is the correct wording. To answer your question: there are two species of Orbilia on the above image, one with teeth is very similar to the undescribed O. frullaniae from W-France, but deviating in a few points and intermediate to an E-Australian undescribed species (O. angustoaristata), so that one cannot easily say if these three are one species, two or three...
The smooth apo is a completely different species, close to the undescribed European O. cylindrospora, but different enough to be described as O. austrocylindrica.
Everything clear?
good night
Zotto
yes, "very soon" is the correct wording. To answer your question: there are two species of Orbilia on the above image, one with teeth is very similar to the undescribed O. frullaniae from W-France, but deviating in a few points and intermediate to an E-Australian undescribed species (O. angustoaristata), so that one cannot easily say if these three are one species, two or three...
The smooth apo is a completely different species, close to the undescribed European O. cylindrospora, but different enough to be described as O. austrocylindrica.
Everything clear?
good night
Zotto