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Bonsoir à toutes et tous,Pourriez-vous m'aider à
Octospora rubens ?
Beñat Jeannerot,
24-04-2010 15:03
Bonjour à tous,Une récolte faite dans mon jardin, sur la terre nue mêlée de mousses (Pottia ?). Petits groupes d'apothécies de moins de 0,2 cm, orangé, ne se touchant pas. Semble être liée aux mousses mais...
Micro : Spores un peu en calisson, lisses, hyalines, une grande guttule, 16.4-19.3 x 9.1-10.7 µm, X= 18 x 9.9 µm, Q=1.82.
Asques x 16-18 µm
Paraphyses contenant quelques gouttelettes orangées isolées, semblant un peu courbées vers le sommet (caractère pas toujours observé), clavées.
Avec la clé de Michel C. & Gilbert M., j'arrive sur Octospora rubens.
Qu'en pensez-vous ?
Merci d'avance,
Beñat
Beñat Jeannerot,
24-04-2010 15:03
Re:Octospora rubens ?
Spores
Beñat Jeannerot,
24-04-2010 15:03
Re:Octospora rubens ?
Paraphyses
Richard Korf,
24-04-2010 16:09
Re:Octospora rubens ?
Did you check ascus reaction in Lugol's or Melzers?
Dick
Dick
Hans-Otto Baral,
24-04-2010 18:01
Re:Octospora rubens ?
The oil drops are important in Octospora. I see them very faintly in the dead spores of your photos. Did you find it presently? Why not live photos? I remember I had problems with O. rubens, a collection still not clearly identifiied.
Zotto
Zotto
Beñat Jeannerot,
24-04-2010 18:44
Re:Octospora rubens ?
Hi Dick and Zotto,
To Dick : Melzer reaction of asci : J-
To Zotto : Why do you mean spores are dead ? Because I have collected specimens and I threat it directly with cotton blue (10 minutes) and under oil immersion. So, live spores photos...
I don't know if I made an error ??
Beñat
To Dick : Melzer reaction of asci : J-
To Zotto : Why do you mean spores are dead ? Because I have collected specimens and I threat it directly with cotton blue (10 minutes) and under oil immersion. So, live spores photos...
I don't know if I made an error ??
Beñat
Beñat Jeannerot,
24-04-2010 19:03
Re:Octospora rubens ?
Re,
I just go find a specimen and I have attached a photo of spores in tap water.
Thanks for your help,
Beñat
I just go find a specimen and I have attached a photo of spores in tap water.
Thanks for your help,
Beñat
Hans-Otto Baral,
24-04-2010 21:04
Re:Octospora rubens ?
Yes, that looks better! Clearly, if you place ascos in CB ( with lactophenol etc.) the elements die. I assume your photos have the same scale. If so the spores show a distinct shrinkage.
My first idea when I see the spores is O. axillaris var. dennisii Itzerott. This variety is on the DVD (HB 1375, 2514), at least at that time I was sure with the identity. The oil drops are a bit more toward one end. First I thought the spores of your find are too narrow. But did you measure them also in water? Please do that, I fear that they will then be larger.
The small associated moss in my old finds could be a Pottiaceae too.
Dieter Benkert reexamined in 2002 HB 1375 and 2514, and his comment to 2514 was: O. cf. crosslandii with Pottia & Bryum (1375 he did not comment). O. crosslandii I actually never found with certainty.
Zotto
My first idea when I see the spores is O. axillaris var. dennisii Itzerott. This variety is on the DVD (HB 1375, 2514), at least at that time I was sure with the identity. The oil drops are a bit more toward one end. First I thought the spores of your find are too narrow. But did you measure them also in water? Please do that, I fear that they will then be larger.
The small associated moss in my old finds could be a Pottiaceae too.
Dieter Benkert reexamined in 2002 HB 1375 and 2514, and his comment to 2514 was: O. cf. crosslandii with Pottia & Bryum (1375 he did not comment). O. crosslandii I actually never found with certainty.
Zotto
Beñat Jeannerot,
24-04-2010 21:35
Re:Octospora rubens ?
Hi Zotto,
Thanks for your note. Ok for spores in lactophenol are dead. I know that but I think Scutellinia. And works on Scutellinia are often with measurements made in the CB (for ornementation). The variation in measurements may depend on personal habits. Personally, I measure everything in the CB for not having problems. A good discussion in perspective...:)
I just measure spores in water (n=30) : 17.1-20.3 x 9.6-11.3 µm.
And I just receive a mail from Raùl Tena Lahoz, a spanish friend which are specialized and interested by genus Octospora and Lamprospora and he suggests to me the same issue that you at the end of your message : Octospora crosslandii is certainly a good idea for this collection.
I think you certainly both right.
Many thanks again,
Beñat
Thanks for your note. Ok for spores in lactophenol are dead. I know that but I think Scutellinia. And works on Scutellinia are often with measurements made in the CB (for ornementation). The variation in measurements may depend on personal habits. Personally, I measure everything in the CB for not having problems. A good discussion in perspective...:)
I just measure spores in water (n=30) : 17.1-20.3 x 9.6-11.3 µm.
And I just receive a mail from Raùl Tena Lahoz, a spanish friend which are specialized and interested by genus Octospora and Lamprospora and he suggests to me the same issue that you at the end of your message : Octospora crosslandii is certainly a good idea for this collection.
I think you certainly both right.
Many thanks again,
Beñat
Hans-Otto Baral,
24-04-2010 21:42
Re:Octospora rubens ?
O.k., your spores are still a bit smaller and the LB a bit more central than mine, so perhaps my finds are a different species, or not, who knows.
Zotto
Zotto
Beñat Jeannerot,
24-04-2010 22:29
Re:Octospora rubens ?
No, no, no, Zotto, I'm not sure of anything ...
I know nothing about these genus, I've just found in the garden ...
Personally, I affirm nothing ... far be it from me ...
Excuse me if I have seemed presumptuous,
Very amically,
Beñat
I know nothing about these genus, I've just found in the garden ...
Personally, I affirm nothing ... far be it from me ...
Excuse me if I have seemed presumptuous,
Very amically,
Beñat
Gilbert MOYNE,
25-04-2010 18:59
Re:Octospora rubens ?
Bonjour Beñat
Cette forme plus ovoïde des spores correspond en effet mieux à O. crosslandii.
O. rubens a les spores plus régulièrement elliptiques et la goutte reste centrale.
Elles sont aussi en général plus petites (16-18)
Gilbert
Cette forme plus ovoïde des spores correspond en effet mieux à O. crosslandii.
O. rubens a les spores plus régulièrement elliptiques et la goutte reste centrale.
Elles sont aussi en général plus petites (16-18)
Gilbert
Beñat Jeannerot,
25-04-2010 21:30
Re:Octospora rubens ?
Merci beaucoup Gilbert.
Je vois un peu mieux O. crosslandii effectivement par rapport aux planches de votre article.
Beñat
Je vois un peu mieux O. crosslandii effectivement par rapport aux planches de votre article.
Beñat