Velutarina - Forum ASCOFrance

18-11-2025 18:26

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Velutarina

Elisabeth Stöckli, 30-05-2025 10:20

Bonjour,

Sur branches mortes de Salix en place (milieu humide à 830 m). Apothécies 1.5 – 2.5 mm de diamètre, cupuliforme, stipitée, l'hyménium jaune/vert, surface externe brune, asques octosporés, 135 – 210 x 11 – 14 µm, avec crochets, IKI-/KOH+MLZ-, spores lisses, d'abord hyalines, à maturité brunes, 11 – 15 x 7 – 8.5 µm, paraphyses septées, avec vacuoles réfringentes.

Je ne trouve pas d'espèce qui corresponde vraiment à ces caractéristiques. Qu'en pensez-vous ? Merci de votre avis.

Elisabeth

Hans-Otto Baral, 30-05-2025 10:58

Re : Velutarina

Hallo Elisabeth

the only deviation I see is the absent IKI reaction (absent apical thickening). This reminds me of V. bertiscensis but that has no VBs and larger multiguttulate spores which turn brown already inside the living asci. You don't have a photo of a mature living ascus?

Zotto

Martin Bemmann, 30-05-2025 11:06

Re : Velutarina

And what about the crozieres?

Martin

Hans-Otto Baral, 30-05-2025 11:22

Re : Velutarina

You are right Martin, I remember - I only wrote by memory.

Elisabeth Stöckli, 30-05-2025 11:57

Re : Velutarina

Merci pour vos avis.

Les spores mûrissent dans les asques, il y a aussi des spores en germination, parfois aussi dans les asques. Malgré cela, je ne vois pas d'espèce qui corresponde.

Elisabeth

Hans-Otto Baral, 30-05-2025 12:02

Re : Velutarina

You must distinguish between living and dead asci. Germination in dead asci is banal. But your new photo with brown spores seems to concern a living ascus.

In V. rufoolivacea you will never find brown spores inside living asci.

Martin Bemmann, 30-05-2025 12:16

Re : Velutarina

How about V. alpestris? The characters would fit.

Elisabeth Stöckli, 30-05-2025 12:33

Re : Velutarina

Non, je connais bien cette espèce, ça ne correspond pas (voir Cryptogamica Helvetica, Cenangiopsis alpestris, page 110).

Elisabeth

Hans-Otto Baral, 30-05-2025 15:57

Re : Velutarina

Cenangiopsis alpestris has distinctly narrower spores and a conical ascus apex.

My folder rufoolivacea cf., S-America could be closer, it seems to have an unthickened apical ascus wall and probably ejects brown spores.

Ingo Wagner, 30-05-2025 17:28

Re : Velutarina

Hi Elisabeth!

Which image shows asci + IKI?
And which shows asci + MLZ with KOH pretreatment?
I would repeat the test.
It would be nice to see more images with multiple asci.

Greetings
Ingo

Elisabeth Stöckli, 30-05-2025 23:05

Re : Velutarina

Voici des photos avec prétraitement KOH et MLZ.

Elisabeth

Velutarina-sp.-MLZ-0001.jpg

Ingo Wagner, 30-05-2025 23:17

Re : Velutarina

Hi Elisabeth!

MLZ stains brown.
Sorry, but nothing in your picture is brown.

Greetings
Ingo

Hans-Otto Baral, 31-05-2025 08:50

Re : Velutarina

Hi Ingo

the second new photo is yellow, this is clearly iodine. In the first it seems the iodine was captured by the KOH.

The thin apical wall and absence of a ring structure excludes amyloidity in this find.

Ingo Wagner, 01-06-2025 11:10

Re : Velutarina

Hello Elisabeth!

Only now do I understand that there's another image hidden under "Velutarina-sp-MLZ-0001."
This image, "croziers+," and Zotto's explanation of the "thin apical wall" rule out rufo-olivacea.
Please excuse my misunderstanding.

Best regards
Ingo

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